Interviews with Immigrants

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In Hong Kong, the McDonald's. It looks like what it looks like in the advertisement, but then, like, you go to the American ones, it feels more greasy, more fried, the burgers are smaller. My cousin was like, into WWF, what is this? I was like, fascinated by it Christmas, 7am and there was, like, gifts everywhere. And I was like, what the first impression? That's everything we call the American warrants, ABC and then we call the immigrants fobs Fresh Off the Boat. You're not really bold.

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Welcome to interviews with immigrants, the podcast where we celebrate the positive side of immigration by cutting through the politics and sharing the real stories, the heart, the humor and the humanity behind every journey.

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I'm your host. Andrea Shev, immigration attorney, storyteller and the face behind the YouTube channel, Chev law, group that helps 1000s navigate the US immigration system every month. But This show isn't about forms, immigration laws and policies. It's about food, fashion, funny stories and fearless reinvention that defines the immigrant experience today. I am thrilled to welcome Leo Chan, a Hong Kong born queens, raised creative who swapped his Wall Street job for a passport, a camera and a killer sense of style. He's the founder of levitate style, a fashion and lifestyle brand that's redefined Asian masculinity and immigrant identity in media. We'll talk about growing up between cultures, what it's like to pivot from finance to fashion, how immigrants can own their own stories on their own terms. And yes, we'll dive into identity, family traditions and favorite dishes. In fact, I'll be trying a classic Chinese food I've somehow never had before, and let's just say it has way more toes than I expected. Let's get into it. So Leo, thank you so much for being here. I'm so excited that you're finally coming out interviews with immigrants. I know we're going to get to your journey from Hong Kong to the US, and your twist from finance to fashion. But before we could tell that, I want to go back to the beginning, like the very beginning, the 10 year old boy in Hong Kong that's headed now to the US. So take me back there. What was your feelings? What was your parents feelings? What was the reason that you came here? Hey, the first memory thinking back when I was that young, was like, my parents just telling me, like, Hey, you got to start saying goodbye to your friends, like, start packing things up, like, kind of, really starting this process of moving. And then when you're that young, you're like, I don't know what that means. Like, I guess we're moving somewhere. Like, what does that even mean to be on a long flight, right, let alone moving to a new country. I remember specifically my parents were like, Whoa, you got to pick an American name, and Leo is not your child. Leo's not my Chinese name. It's not my

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legal name either. So how did you get Leo? The funny thing was, my parents initially had picked out name for me, but I was like, what is that? I've never heard of that before. Like

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they were gonna name me Ernest. Oh, which even now is like you ever heard that boy? You're probably like, Oh, my God. I have never seen that on a name dictionary anywhere. I haven't seen it in TV or anything. But I, over the years, I asked them they wanted to name me after

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this cargo ship that my dad used to work on. So that was like, I was okay, all right. That was romantic

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game, I get it. But I was like, no. So I actually picked my name Leo from

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like, a comic book character at the time. I was just really into comic books, like most kids are into video games. And one of the main character in Resident Evil, he's like the main cop. This officer, his name was Leon. So I should pick my name Leon first. So then I went with that. I remember picking my name. I remember just like, packing up all my favorite toys and things that we could have.

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And I also remember we were, we each had like, two giant, like bags that we were we can carry, like was like two like giant, like denim duffel bags. It was like, just as tall as I am, it was just like, you can stuff as much as you want, and then we, like, put a lock on it. And since it's, you know, interviews with immigrants, how did you immigrate? Do you know, was it your someone sponsored you, a family member sponsored you to come over. So it was my dad's side, my aunt that sponsors, sponsored us. The way I understood it is we had a visa that we had, like, a 10 year window, and there was actually around the time I was first born. So we first moved to New York City, and we moved to Queens, which is just the most diverse place immigrant

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Central, probably the most diverse place in the world, if not, at least America, right? And so in Queens, we lived all over, but first we moved to Corona.

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The Jackson Heights area in Queens, it was more of a Hispanic area. So when we first moved, we lived at my aunt and uncle's place. It was a small townhouse, and then all of a sudden they had five more people in the house, so it was cramped, like I remember, like just sleeping in the living room and kind of just getting off footing, and

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that first week, first month, it was more like just settling in my parents, finding an apartment to rent. And do you remember, I always ask him about, would you remember the first food you had, like, American ish food that you were like, Oh my gosh. What is this

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first ever American food, or first food that kind of shocked you, that this is not Hong Kong. I feel, I feel like the first food, it's McDonald's. You have, like, we have McDonald's in Hong Kong, but it's different. It's like, I noticed that, you know, McDonald's is different everywhere, like, whenever we go. It's not like, I go to McDonald's everywhere I go, but some countries I've gone to, and I have to say, sorry, McDonald's, wherever you are, McDonald's, sorry, but it's not as good.

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It's different. It's better. Oh yeah, it is here in Hong Kong, the McDonald's, like, growing up, I remember it's like, it looks like what it looks like in the advertisement. It smells different. But then, like, you go to the America ones, it's just, it's different. It feels more greasy, more fried. The burgers are smelly, yeah, okay, but I do remember the childhood memory of, like, we just go to McDonald's all the time, because I think that was also around the time when they were really pumping out, like the $1 menu, the value menu, it was like the $1 my chicken. So it was just like something that my dad always just took us to because it was like something to do. But I remember that as kind of like, I guess, the first, first American food off the top of my head. I also remember just like living in my aunt's house, like this was also like the aunt and uncle that, like, I never met. So it wasn't just like, oh, you moved to America. It's a new country. No, it's like the whole new side of family I've never met, right? Like my dad

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in that way. So hey, here's your aunt, here's your grown cousin. It's like, Oh, hi. So they were much older than you, yeah? So there was definitely, like, a bigger age gap, but yeah, that was kind of like the first memory moving here, and I remember it was just like, whole new world, right? Like, my cousin was, like, into WWF at the time, like, wrestling that we didn't have that in Hong Kong. So for me, I'm like, What is this? Like? I was, like, fascinated by it. Sure you are as a kid, right? Like, because you're watching it, like it's entertainment, like a sport, yeah? But you're just, like, they're just fighting. Like, is this a movie, watching what's going on? So I got really into WWF. I think that was, like, one big, like, cultural thing, like, right away that was like, oh, WWF. And like, did your parents think that's really violent? They she shouldn't be right, watching this? Yeah, I think there's times where they're like, Okay, maybe, like, don't, don't watch it so much like, don't get someone to because the next thing, you know, I Yeah, the second the show is over, I'm trying to practice my moves on my brother. And, you know, they're just younger than you Yeah, my brother is three years younger, and it's just, you know, in my mind, on my eye, I'm gonna recreate that whole two hour TV taping all the moves on my brother. What an impression, right? 10 year old boy arrives from Hong Kong and watches, www,

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yeah. Next thing you know, I'm not just like, oh, I don't want like the latest Pokemon, or I don't want like the latest like transformer. I want, like the rock. I want the undertaker. I want stone cold. It's just like, What

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is this?

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I

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know in Hong Kong, you know, there is an English component. It's not like only, right? No English. So how much English Did you know when you came here? And then how did you pick up English? Because obviously you speak very good, right? Like they taught English in Hong Kong since elementary school, but it was more like, how you learn a different language in America, like you're learning Spanish, so you kind of, like, just learn it, but like, by written, like, you don't really speak it, so it's not enough practice to, like, actually speak it. And then just going around Hong Kong, there's always, like, even in the subways, there's two speakers, so they're saying the Chinese stop and they're saying in English. So it's always, like, the two languages. It's just always around Hong Kong. But like, you don't really speak, it's just, it's just kind of there, just kind of background. And again, like, you learn it as, like a second language in Hong Kong, it's just something that you learn. You like, I don't think, I wasn't thinking, Oh, I'm gonna use this. And then in America, it's like it's flipped. So I remember first, just like being in school,

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I kid you not, like homework and reading, especially like English class, where they always have kids read books, it was just like I had to translate every single word, like one page took foot.

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Ever it just felt like one page took an hour. And the memories I remember me, my mom, literally with a dictionary, just translating every single word on the page, like the entire page was just translated.

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So that was rough. But you were, you were in English as a Second Language classes with other kids that spoke not just Cantonese, but Right. So we, I was also in ESL, which I did that until, I think, like, seven or eighth grade, so like, the first few years, oh yeah, oh yeah,

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and yeah, like that. That definitely helped, you know, just being with other immigrants in the room that didn't really speak the language, and again, I think the cool part about growing up in New York City is that it was immigrants from all over the place, right? It wasn't just Chinese, it wasn't just Asians. It was people from Russia, people from Europe that I was like, I like, I was like, What? What are those names like? I've never heard that name before. It was just really cool to, like,

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learn about the world in that scale. Like in one classroom, you just had people from all over the world, and we're all learning English together, which is fascinating, because it's like, there's people that say that in the US, we don't teach enough about world, world. You know what I mean, about, like, everything outside of the United States, about different cultures, about different people. But the interesting thing is, like, you have a kid coming from Hong Kong dropped into the US school system, and he's surrounded basically by the world, oh, yeah, because all these kids from, like you said, Russia, you know, in Latin America, South America, Eastern I mean, all over the place. And it's like you learn from each other innocently, which is a better education than what you would learn in a book. Yeah, I think that was, that's really cool, because, like, that was really my first experience to the world in that sense, because in Hong Kong, was it very diverse? Oh, no, no. Well, especially like being born and raised in Hong Kong, I'm sure, like, I've heard from other friends that grew up in, like, international schools, that's a little different, but Hong Kong, oh no, it's just all Chinese, yeah. So it's a very interesting thing to land in a in an environment like that. So that must have been fast. And then did you learn other languages too? While you were learning English, I tried like because by the time, by the time I got to high school, my English was good enough anymore, but that's when they're like, hey, well, you gotta pick a second language. And I struggle. I suck that Spanish, but you chose Spanish? Well, it just felt like that was like, the like, the more popular option. Everyone was kind of taking Spanish. It seemed similar. Everyone's saying you should take Kenny, right?

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Yeah. Oh, imagine the internal struggles I had to deal with growing up. It's like, Forget Chinese, learn English, and then now it's like everyone

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was trying to learn Chinese.

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It was like in bread, and you still obviously speak to your family, yeah, yeah. So with, with, with my parents. Mostly that's when I get to speak Chinese and and I try to indulge in that too. When I when I'm visiting them, and I spend time with them, I'm like, Okay, let me, let me get in my reps, let me practice and like, or else I'm scared to lose it too. Yeah, you won't lose it. You won't lose it. So teenage years boy from Hong Kong, yeah, grows up in New York. Yeah, teenage years, how did your parents and, like, how did they deal with some of those, probably, situations that they probably didn't want to deal with? Yeah? Okay, so I would first, yeah, those were, those are interesting years, for sure. I think they're interesting even when you're not an immigrant. Yeah, that's true. So I think, like, first was like, I think growing up in New York City, and then I think the biggest culture in, like, right, right before high school as a teenager, was like, it's not just like, you're in certain communities and you're in elementary school during high school, but also like, now you're for me, I was like, Okay, well, I'm an immigrant. But then there are American Born Chinese American born Asians. And, like, we have a, I don't know if you know these acronyms, we call them ABCs. No American Born Chinese ABCs. So that's like, the easiest thing. Like we we call the American borns ABC and then we call the immigrants fobs Fresh Off the Boat. I think I heard that one before. Yeah, so, but it was that, like, a derogatory thing. Did people get annoyed when you're like, Oh, you're an ABC, in a way. But it was like, it wasn't even, like, a big it wasn't like adults weren't calling each other that. Was like the kids were calling each other that and so, like, for me, like, trying to grow up and like, fit in.

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You get to different and also we started moving to different neighborhoods. Like it was almost like every year we moved to a different school, a different neighborhood. Just, you know, my parents are like, okay, oh, there's better school,

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there's there's better neighborhoods and better school districts. So like, every year we move.

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Right? So in like five years, I was in four different schools, so like, just even growing up making friends,

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having finally making friends in one elementary school, and then it's like, Well, goodbye, going to another one, and then you got to make friends again. And then now we're getting to a little bit nicer neighborhood, and now I'm dealing with the ABCs, and it's like, we look the same, but we're not. You're not including me. So there's a lot of like, I don't like using word discriminator, but there's a lot of like, separation, yeah. And so not only as an immigrant from the rest of America, but also within the same race, it was like, and I get it too, like thinking back, it's like, it's different culture, like we have different mindsets, like I'm still learning English. And so for them, it's just they look we all looked at each other differently. So the ABCs and the fobs, that's really interesting. I heard that, and then, coming from the parents perspective, they're thinking like, well, look at them. Look at how well they're doing in school. It's the it's the joke about immigrant parents going like, Oh, look at your cousin. Look at, look, look, look at these grades, and look at job. And it's just like, I think growing up, that was the constant, like, pressure, at least in the back of my mind, that, like, you got to do well in school, you got to, you know, that's just, that's your whole life. That's your goal. And then, you know, oh, that's the whole point we moved to America, was to have a brighter future for the better school system. So it was just like, there was a lot of pressure on academics in school. And then in New York City, my mom found out that, like, there's specialized high schools. And so in New York at the time, there was, like a big three, like top three high schools, and it was Stuyvesant bronze science and Brooklyn Tech. And once my mom found out, Oh, you gotta get into one of those specialized high school getting a higher chance of getting to a good college. So I remember, like my summers was just like summer school, like after school was more school was just like math tutor and just so many like different courses, like tutoring courses and things like that. So it was like school on top of school and school. Well, did you have any fun in high school, any partying, any thing that your parents had to deal with? Or were you mostly, was it mostly academic and focused, and that's what keep you away. Did you play sports? Oh yeah. So in high school, I started to really get into basketball. That's that was really my way to kind of, then to really fit in with the rest of the crowd. So really got into basketball. And then in that, I really got into street fashion, because that was a big part of the NBA culture, and then that was also a big part of what school was like. You know, you want to wear the coolest clothes, the latest sneakers. And that's when I got into, like, the sneakers world.

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And like, there was no crazy partying, but like, that was the kind of, like, that kind of American culture that I was really going into instead. So I was, like, getting really burned out from all the expectations and school and all that. And like, I started hanging out with different crowds, and it was all about playing basketball and, you know, just hanging out and dressing well for school.

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But I remember, like, one of the big fights I had with my mom was I, like, I finally saved up enough money to buy my first pair of Jordans,

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and I was so excited. It was, like, so cool, so dope. Like, I got it, it's the latest thing. Everyone's gonna love it. Everyone's gonna be jealous and like, I brought it home and like, but I also knew that my mom wouldn't really approve of it, because, from the Asian culture, they're all about saving money. They're all about being survival, right? Like, saving money, like, only buying stuff on discount or secondhand, like I grew up with that's not just Asian community, right? I can name a few other communities, sure, for sure, but, yeah. But just like growing up with that, like it's all about saving money and, like, not spending, like, you don't buy things full price, like, that was just not a thing. And so for me to then, on the other hand, the opposite of, like, I'm saving all this money to buy this pair of sneaker that's, like,

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so expensive. And I remember, like, tell my mom, like, half the price that it was, and my mom still flipped out on me. She was like, why would you spend so much money on this? Like, why don't you don't wear yet? Just Just, just have a think about it. And I like, I just couldn't believe that I had to, like, hold this back. And I had to lie to her and tell her it was half the price. It was, I thought it was 80 bucks. I spent 100 160 bucks for a high school kid way back. It was a lot of money. Well, you know, that brings me to a really interesting thing that I want to talk to you about. It's called Third Culture kids, for the viewers and for the people listening. Let me just define what it is, because, honestly, I when I heard it the first time, I didn't know what it was, but let me just read it so individuals who spend a significant part of their childhood growing up in a culture different from their parents or their own country of citizenship, this unique upbringing, upbringing shapes their identity, often leading.

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To a sense of belonging to multiple cultures, or conversely, a feeling of being from everywhere and nowhere. So when you talk like this, it's like it makes me realize, because, like you said, the ABCs that you've mentioned, they didn't have, they don't have that really so much because you have a memory of Hong Kong, a clear memory of Hong Kong. Yeah, you live with your parents that clearly are still from Hong Kong, right? And have a home probably that is very similar to Hong Kong, and they're in their, you know, traditions and what they do. But you're an American kid now. I mean, you've spent so much time in the US, you're trying to acclimate, trying to fit in. So what does it mean to you, like a third culture. Kid, like, was it? Is it frustration? Is it? It's, I think the third culture is part of the best way to explain it, because it's like you're not really both right, like you're never right. You never feel, yeah, do you feel American? I feel very American. Now you do, yeah. And I think it's because, again, over the years, I'm such a sponge in that way, of just like absorbing and learning from others and learning from so many different cultures that, like, I have such a strong sense of appreciation for everyone. It's a fascinating idea, and there's millions of people in the US that fit that particular category, and I'm always fascinated. And honestly, I've been doing immigration law for over 20 years, and I've never heard the phrase, which is weirded me out to begin with. So I looked it up, and I started thinking about, I'm like, wow, you know that's it's interesting. The whole idea of this third culture kid, this whole group of people that have this completely different identity because of when they came to the US, because of who their parents are because of where they're trying to fit. It's a fascinating idea, and it's a fascinating concept to kind of explore with immigrants. Yeah, so I'm glad that we had the chance like, and also like, especially like, grown, but in New York where, like, I can only speak from my experience growing, but New York City, it's like, you're around hip hop rap basket. It's like the street where that's the culture and so like, again, just imagine the Hong Kong Chinese kid, and it's like, I'm trying to fit in, so I'm wearing, like, the baggy jeans and the jerseys, and then you're going home to a different they don't understand it. They're like, okay, I guess. But like, that's the kind of culture that you kind of like mold within. No, it's fascinating. So you talked, you just talked you just talked a little bit about how your parents, it's like, very academic, very safe kind of path you're supposed to take. So that leads me directly into you ending up in finance. So you graduate high school, yeah, you end up in, you know, college. You end up taking, what was your What was your degree? I ended up doing accounting, accounting. And then you end up in the finance world, like a traditional, traditional finance world, your parents are probably beaming, oh yeah, happy. Like, look at my son. You know, he did what he was supposed to do. How did you feel about that? I mean, were you doing it to appease your parents? Or you really felt like I should do this? I want to do Yeah. So actually, the first degree I wanted to do was psychology. I found the subject very fascinating. And again, I think as part of my background of I wanted to fit in, I wanted to learn from people. So I think psychology was just such, such a fascinating subject. And so actually, my first year, like my, you know, my, my, my concentration, I was trying to be a psychology major, but just from working part time jobs. As a college student, I met other working professionals in real estate office, and they were saying, like, oh yeah, I studied psychology, and look where I ended up. And so for me, I was like, Well, I don't want to pursue a degree that didn't guarantee me a job. I think the whole point, like, it's just like thinking back of like, well, why am I going to college? I'm going to college because my parents did all this for me to come to America, like, for this opportunity for a brighter future. And so I then I'm like, wait, I want to go to college to get a degree that can get a job like that was the whole goal. That was not, it was not about interest. It was not about, you know, like, what we're into, the hobbies, not nothing like that. So then next thing you know, I'm like, Okay, well, business degree, accounting was like, the higher, more difficult concentration within the business program. And so I'm like, Well, I'm gonna go for that, because that's gonna guarantee me a higher chance of getting a job. And that was all my focus was, even though I hated it. It was so hard. It was so hard for me. It was even harder, because that's not even like, where your heart was. Heart was, yeah, so it was like, it was hard already, did

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you put me in a bathroom? So I survived. I graduated, and I was able to, you know, thankfully, get a job. I ended up working at Morgan Stanley and Barclays Bank in New York City. And Morgan, everybody knows Morgan Stanley, so like, it was like, I was equally proud of myself for just pushing through and just keep pushing myself. I think at that point my parents weren't like, pushing pushing me. It was just like, they know what I'm doing. They kind of trust that I know what's best for myself. But yeah, it was just like, really cool for them.

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Am to kind of

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thinking back now they're flexing on other people. Hey, my son works.

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They can start bragging. And also, I was the first to go to college in my family. And so that was another thing of like, well, I'm the first to go to college. I should do something with the like, to really get a job. So, like, there was just all these things that, like, in a way, the pressure pushed me to work in finance, and then, yeah, the drum roll, you made a change. And tell me about how that happened. I was working in finance for like five years at this point, but I've always loved photography like that was just kind of my insurance, my hobby on the side, that's what I've done on the weekend, just capturing moments in my life. And then just started to travel, and again, just taking a lot of pictures. I was, I love sharing it on Facebook. And again, with my fashion background from high school, I was just always into fashion. But I think also growing up as an immigrant, that was another thing I kind of learned was that, like,

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you can, yeah, you can speak the language, you can do the job, but the first impression that's everything, especially in the business world, and learning, again, with the accounting background, the business background, first impression is everything, and especially when it comes to job interview. So it's just kind of like taking all the things I learned was like, Well, I want to dress for the job. I want. I want to dress well. I want to present myself

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in this way, in this image. And then with my interest in photography and traveling, that was at the time when Instagram was just starting up. And my girlfriend, at the time, she was on the fashion blogs and Instagram, she's, oh, look, look at what all these like bloggers are doing, like, You should do it because you're like, This is the things you love. And I remember, like, there's already 10 men's bloggers in the whole country. There's too many. But then I remember, I was like, well, they're not Asian, so I have, like, a advantage, or a different way to, like, fit in. And like, I can, I can, I can present something different to the world.

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So that's how I, like, really got into it. And so I started posting on a blog. We had a website. We started posting on Instagram. And this was all side hustle too. Like, this was like we were shooting content on the weekend, like working out of a cafe in New York City. I was still working the nine to five job at Barclays Bank and

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just really side hustle, like shooting whenever we can, whenever we're time editing. And then within that first year, we were networking at fashion events. I got to network with GQ just because of putting all those pictures online and getting exposure. Yeah, it was just like it was just really the early days of fashion blogs and Instagram, where brands were kind of learning about this at the same time. So when they see someone else who's putting content out there, they're okay, well, we can like so it was really like working with brands step by step, building over the years as well. And what was born out of all this levitate style, yeah, so the blog is levitate style, and that's how we, like, started doing this, and then in that first year, we had an opportunity to quit our jobs and travel the world for five months. That's amazing. And that's all through this whole platform, just from social media, yeah. And this is again, early, like now at this time, it's like early, like, 2015 Wow. And this was already around the time when I was, like, starting to, like,

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should I quit my job? Like, should I give up my six figure job that I, you know, all these years, that you work hard, work hard for, and also that you had this whole affinity to because of your parents and because of your culture, because of your background, yeah, and it's like, well, I've grown

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comfortable with it. And it's like, you know? And I think in the back of my mind, it's just like, what are the potentials? Like, what more can I do? Like, can I try something else and not to be like, Is this my ceiling in corporate war? Like, I didn't I saw what my next level? What my next jump would be in corporate world, like, do I want to be a team leader and work more hours?

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I don't know if I can do that. And again, at the same time, you seen like this digital marketing world that's like, just starting to build out, and you're like, This is so exciting. What's next? What other brands can I work with? And like, in the past few and months, leading up to me quitting, we were already starting to get, like, pay campaigns. And I'm like, Wow, if I did the math, like, Would I rather leave my six figure job and just make 40k would I be happy with that? But I'll be I'll have freedom. It's my passion. It's like, I think I'd be okay with that. And this is early years, right? So it's just like, maybe that maybe, maybe that's okay, you know, to be more happy and excited for your job. You're ahead of your time. Yeah, no one thought about that. Now it's just whole different world. But yeah, that and that was around.

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The time when the opportunity came where we got to work with the brand to travel the world for five months on a world cruise. So that was your sign, honestly? And we're like, um, yeah, I think this is once in a lifetime opportunity. I can always find another finance job after five months if need be. Yeah, yeah, there's a lot of listening. I think, I think, I think we'll be good. Yeah, we had like, a few weeks to, like, pack up, up, pack about things, sub please, the apartment and head off, head off. Wow. And then when you came back, you just dived in 100% into levitate stuff. Yeah, we got to visit 50 cities in 26 countries. Unbelievable. When I told my parents at the time, they're like, What? What do you know? What are you doing? Yeah, don't, don't quit your job. I'm like, um, is traveling around the world, like I can always find another job. And I think again, like, over the years, they they trust that, like I'm doing what's best for myself. And I'm smart, like, I'm not just gonna quit at my job for nothing. Like immigrants especially have this hustle in them. And when you surround yourself with that kind of people, it becomes like this, you know, like this vibration, this thing that happens, that causes things like levitate style to develop and grow out of a culture that it wasn't supposed to happen, right? Yeah, it wasn't supposed to happen. I want to talk a little bit about the challenges you've had as an Asian in fashion. You mentioned that there wasn't a lot of Asians in the fashion industry that you could look to in the beginning, yeah. And now, and how did you, how do you use, and how did you use levitate style to kind of help the Asian community, or, you know, support the Asian community in the world of fashion and business. Yeah, over time,

31:48
you know, my passion was in fashion and photography and all these things, but my I found my purpose in Asian representation. You know, that was really, like, the main reason I wanted to start this, because I didn't see Asian guys like me growing up, like you go on google search before you looked at men's fashion, you know, men's suits something like, you just won't see someone like me. And so, like, part of my purpose was, like, you know, if you even just look looked up fashion, now you see me, like, I've done my job, right? And so early on, that was the struggle that, like, I felt like brands weren't ready for that, but then over time, brands were more and more open to it. And even then, like, over over the years, I felt like I was always kind of the elephant in the room. So even the events I go to for years, I was the only Asian guy around. Like I would literally walk in and look around, I'm like, Okay, I'm also very thankful too, because half the time it was also the marketing or the PR rep on the other side of that table that they were Asian, and they felt like we need to be more inclusive and represented in that way. So like, half the time like, well, I'm so thankful that you didn't end up in the traditional career path, and you work the marketing that you know, because it doesn't just happen from the outside, also has to happen within itself. Like, change has to happen within and so, like, it's both ways, like we need someone on the other side, fighting our battles and fighting for us too, for me to be in that room.

33:17
And so a lot of times it's both ways. It's not just like, Oh, I just showed up. I'm the only one. But yeah, over time, it's been better and better and again, just like getting to work on so many different campaigns, like, over the years, I was also has become, like, the token Asian. Like, let's say they hire 10 influencers for this one campaign project. I might be that one. And, you know, and that happens to other minorities too. Like, it has to start with one exactly, even if it's token, even if it's that's the minority pick, right? Like, it's like we, but what, that's how we break through the door, at least get in there. Yeah, absolutely. And then over time, I think what was really cool is certain brands, they are, they were more open to celebrating Chinese holidays. And so, like, Chinese New Year, mid autumn festival, like the mooncake things like that. Like, growing up as an immigrant, we didn't have those school holidays, so it was like, it was like, it was so quickly forgotten that, like, oh, well, we don't celebrate in America. So, like, we don't have to celebrate in America. And it's like, as a kid, you're like, what happened. That's my culture. That's what happened to those but

34:24
then working with brands is cool over the years that they're like, well, we want, we would love for you to post about Chinese New Year and this. And then I've done to work with my mom. I got to work with my brother, my dad in those campaigns, and to like, you know, it's work with my family in that way, and again, like sharing Chinese New Year to the world, because there's definitely people that like, I don't know what that is. Absolutely, they don't know what that looks like. So it's cool to not just only work with the brands, but also celebrate my culture and my educate and educate people about Chinese culture, about history, about celebrations. Yes, absolutely.

35:00
You have a partner that you've had for many, many years, and I know she works with you in your business, the two of you. She's not Chinese, nope.

35:08
She was born here, yeah. And where was she born? She was born in Buffalo, New York, okay, a real American Girl, yeah, oh, yeah. So how did that feel to you? One and how did you guys meet? And then, how was it? More importantly, how is it, when you brought her home to your parents, was there any kind of interesting how does she communicate with your parents? Because she doesn't speak Chinese? No, she doesn't. So we actually met in college. We have mutual friends.

35:35
If I feel like it's such a typical college thing where we have typical friends, we have mutual friends. And it was like, hey, you know, like, do you guys, would you want to invite her to a party? And I was like, oh, like, she looks very cute. And like, we got to talking, and we just clicked instantly.

35:52
But what's funny is, too, is like, we're actually very different. Like, not, that's how it works, because opposites, yeah, but I think again, let's just, like, as a sponge and just learning and appreciating, um, different cultures and different backgrounds, like, we just love and appreciate each other's background, like, there's no it wasn't, it wasn't anything like, for me, it was just like, it was just so Cool to, like, learn from her,

36:19
her American experience. And so, like, for example, like for me, like, I didn't grow up with American Christmas and Thanksgiving, like, all the American holidays. It was like, yeah, it was there. Like, I celebrated, but it was like, to the best of, I don't know what my friends were doing at the time, but like, it was really cool to, like, learn about American culture through her. Because it was like, for like, first time, it was like, Christmas, wake up, Christmas, 7am and there was, like, gifts everywhere. And I was like, what it's like, the real deal. Like, it was just like, so cool. And I think, like, it just and then sing them with thanksgiving, like the full on Thanksgiving and all the things. It's just, and, you know, maybe I'm from the outside, it's just like, Oh yeah, it's, it's gifts and this food, but it's like, it's just like, it's the appreciation. It's like, the importance of these holiday of bringing everyone together, and, like, we always travel back to visit her family for these holidays. And that's actually another good thing for, like, interracial, multicultural, multicultural relationships. I like, we don't have to fight over the holidays. Sure, like, there's no, there's no, like, Oh, my mom for Christmas, your dad for Thanksgiving. No, it was like, we're good, like, because, like, there's no, there's no clash at all. So I think that's always such a fun part was blows my mind also with immigrants, is that

37:43
they, it's not that they don't want to do Thanksgiving or Fourth of July other things. It's that it's almost like, how like, like, we want to do it. We feel American, we're here. But it's like, I don't know how to do it. Like, do I how do I cook the turkey? Like, it's just a weird thing that it's very hard to like. It's like, almost like you're faking it. Yeah, they feel like they're an important, imposter syndrome. I'm an imposter syndrome. Even though I'm feel American. I love this country. I want to be hard. I want to celebrate Thanksgiving. I feel like an imposter. How do I make the Thanksgiving turkey? Yeah, I remember, like the Thanksgiving was like, all Filipino food, yeah,

38:17
Thanksgiving, yeah. But it's just like, yeah. I think it's just like their way of celebrating. But it's funny, American, true American, you never really feel, Oh, now I love it, like I want, like, I love it like, I'm like, I want the turkey. I want the stuffing. I want all of that. Because it's like, that's the one time the year you can get that. It's just, it's special. It is special. But, yeah, with, with my girlfriend, uh, over time. My my parents love her, so I think over time, they also try to speak as much English as possible when we're like, hanging around, we're at the dinner table, but to the point where I'm like that, what are you trying to say? Just Just say it in Chinese. I'll translate, because this is thinking too.

39:01
And but then she has also picked up so much Chinese over time. She's also just, like, she loves school, and so she loves languages, so like, she just, you know, she's on Duolingo, she's learning, she's learning French and Spanish and Russian. And, like, she actually learned Chinese as a minor in college, but it was like Mandarin Chinese compared to Cantonese Chinese. But she just loves, like, picking it up because, like, they she hear us talking, and she just picks up, like, what we're saying all the time, to the point where, like, she can she, she understands, like, pretty basic things that we talk about. Now, we kind of talked about this, but do you feel a responsibility to the Asian community, and,

39:44
you know, the immigrant community, that's Asian. Do you feel this deep seated like responsibility to make sure that you represent, especially because you're out in the public, you're out in the, you know, in social media, you feel like this deep sense of responsibility to them, to to act a certain way, to put.

40:00
Present yourself a certain way, because you feel like you are representation of the community itself. Yeah, I think

40:06
especially early on and now still too,

40:12
I because, like, I putting myself out there, right, like, on social media and also in person. And there's many times where I'm like, what if I'm the first Asian you ever met, right? Yeah, like, I don't know what kind of stereotypes you've had about Asians in the past, what kind of negative connotations you've had, but like, what if I'm truly the first one you had a real interaction with? Like, how I present myself might mean a lot, and that could change your perception of what Asians or immigrants are like, right? And so it's I have that in the back of my mind, and I feel like that's what I've grown to understand over time from doing this the past 10 years, and that's what this show is all about. I mean, honestly, it's about enjoying the conversation with immigrants from all over the world, yeah, but also learning and understanding and having first impressions. Sometimes people don't know anything about someone from Hong Kong, right? Even know. Like, I've never even met anyone from Hong Kong. We don't even know what language they speak. You never know you know who's watching and who exactly use this as an experience to learn and to have their eyes open. Of, like, wow, he's pretty cool. Like, Oh, wow. Yeah, you know. All right, Leo, so now it's time to move on to something that is way more important than all this conversation, which is food. All right, I love food. Okay, so we're gonna now shift over and we're gonna actually have me taste some Chinese cuisine that I've never had, believe it or not,

41:35
awesome. So this looks amazing. What do we have here? Leo, okay, so we have some of the classic items from dim sum. And dim sum is like a traditional Chinese brunch. So it's the meal name, like, yeah, we're going for dim sum, yeah, dim sum, yeah. We have some of the classics. So this one here is like a shrimp dumpling, and this is called a hagao hagao. And then this is the pork bun. This is a TA SIU Pao. So like roast pork bun. I'm not saying that one. So the roast, there's roast pork filling on the inside of the bun, okay, but the bun is actually kind of like a brioche bun style, okay, but there's meat inside. The meat is inside. That's, that's the filling. And then we have, I think, the infamous Dim Sum item, the chicken feet. The chicken feet in Chinese is called Feng Zhao. Feng Zhao. It's actually like Phoenix claw. Oh, wow. You know, pretty big chicken foot. Oh, chicken feet are usually that big. Are they? I don't know. I don't really look at normal size chickens

42:39
very often, but it looks kind of like a very large chicken. Seems but they are normal to me. They're chickens, yeah, I think so some other breed. Okay, so how do we eat? Let's start with this, okay, yeah, I'm a big eater. I just do it the right way, because I'm doing it the wrong way. Is it good?

42:59
Do Yeah,

43:02
that's good. I like that. I like that a lot. Okay, now, chicken feet for the ice. I gotta know where they got it from, yeah, well, it's local, so we'll give you, we'll give you the info. But for you to say it's good, it must, yeah, I like that, yeah, that's good. Okay, so this one, this is the pork bun. This one you can actually even find in bakery sometimes, yeah, this one looks delicious. Oh, yeah. Oh, this is nice and soft and so much. Let's show the people watching on YouTube can actually see how inside, yeah, so this is Rose pork. And what else is in here? Looks like vegetables.

43:36
Oh yeah, there's onions. I think this is mostly just meat, maybe a little bit of carrots or something. But, yeah, this is good.

43:45
Oh, it's really good.

43:47
You know, I love it too, because it's sweet.

43:51
It's sweet with the pork inside, so it's like a salty, sweet sweets.

43:58
Okay, guys, I'm gonna just keep eating this. I'm gonna avoid the chicken. These are great. These are also usually at like, a bunch of, like, Chinese style bakeries around. This is very, yeah, it's like a good, like, grab and go for, like, a quick meal, or just, like a breakfast item.

44:13
Okay, Lew, and we have our chicken feet, so I and, by the way, I don't know why I've actually been to China. Oh, wow. And I spent a quite amount of time in China, not a lot, but, like, a few weeks, and I didn't have any of these things. Can you believe? Okay, so, you know, I was in mainland China. I was in Beijing. Gotcha, this is much more a Hong Kong, okay, that's

44:35
duck, okay. And a lot of fish, okay, yeah, yeah. A lot of not, but not any of this. I think that's also like, what's cool about the Asian culture and Chinese culture is just like in America, you have different food in different regions. Like you have, you know, in the east, you have your lobster rolls and pizza and, you know, and then you go to the south, you have fried chicken. Like, it's just, yeah, different regions, different.

45:00
Food and same thing. So this is something you really do in Hong Kong, yeah? Mostly

45:05
more, the more the Cantonese Chinese cuisine, yeah. Okay, so that makes sense, because I was like, Why did I not? I was there for like, two, three weeks, and I never, okay, yeah, okay, tell me how to eat the chicken feet. Okay, so you gotta understand, I grew up with this. I know I don't remember the first time I had it, it was just like, as a kid, you're like, just eat it. So for me, so take it. Try to take me back to the three year old. For me, I like, you know, because a lot of it is just you kind of eating whatever is kind of like the skin and the meat on it. You spit out the bones. Okay, for me, there's not a step by step process. So just so and so, I'll watch you go ahead, okay. For me, I just go right in. I just,

45:52
okay, I can do that. No,

45:57
it's hard.

45:59
It's good. It doesn't taste like chicken, though. Why does it not just

46:05
spit out the bone? You kind of just eat around. Don't think about it that way. Just eat around whatever you can buy. Too fatty, yeah, it's mostly like skin and cartilage. Yeah. It doesn't taste like chicken because they obviously have mastered the chicken feet and marinated the heck out of it.

46:25
It's pretty good.

46:28
I'm impressed they made the chicken feet edible.

46:32
That's impressive. Well, as my son says, because he hates chicken period, because just try to make it edible any piece of the chicken. But this is good, but it's not fried. It's kind of breaded with, oh no, they season it.

46:47
There's even like black like, that's actually like black bean. It's a different kind of black bean. They season it. I don't know how they marinate it, but it's kind of steamed, like a like, a fried situation. And

47:00
how else do they serve it? They serve in different ways, like it's usually, this is it? Yeah, it's good. I mean, it's kind of fatty. It feels like the drumstick meat. Oh, yeah, okay, like a breast of chicken, right, right, right. But it's good, yeah, excellent, good. So much for this is great. Now I can go to and I could eat. You've had them somehow. And also, I know what I'm Yeah, you never want to go to the restaurants and without somebody who really knows what they're doing, because you feel like, now you can go and you're like, I know that. At least. I know three things exactly. And these come in in many different the dumplings come in with shrimp. What else? Oh, well, for dim sum is traditionally with shrimp. Oh, it is. But then the fun part about dim sum is very much like tapas, like they usually come in three to four pieces, okay, yeah, this is really meant like, you get it and you share with the table, and it's supposed to be with chopsticks. Yeah, chopsticks. And, you know, even I get lazy, sometimes I use a fork. You can't eat with your hands. Typically, no, just just,

47:59
it's not quite finger

48:02
party food. Well, thank you. This was delicious, and thank you for educating me on my ignorance of dim sum. But now I know, and now a lot of people out there also know, yeah, so amazing. Thank you for having me. This is so much fun. Thank you. And that's a wrap on today's episode of interviews with immigrants, where we celebrate the positive side of immigration in the United States, a huge thank you to Leo chan for sharing his incredible journey from Queens to catwalks and accounting spreadsheets to global storytelling, his bold pivot, his creative vision and his commitment to representation remind us that the immigrant experience isn't just about overcoming, it's about reimagining what's possible. If you're feeling inspired, be sure to check out Leo's work@levitatestyle.com

48:49
and follow him on Instagram and YouTube. If you enjoyed today's conversation, don't forget to rate, review and share this episode. If you're watching this episode on YouTube, please like, comment, share, and don't forget to subscribe, so you don't miss any future episodes. I'm your host, Andrea Shev, and remember, behind every immigration story is a human story. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you next time on interviews with immigrants.

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You